Daar word op die oomblik in die kerk meer gepraat oor self-ontplooiing as oor self-opoffering.-Anon.......As ‘n kerk haar woorde begin devalueer, dan word die kerk ‘n ramp vir die volk. - K Schilder

9/08/2008

Navorsingsprojek

Die persoon van Alexander die Grote (AG) het my verbeelding nog altyd aangegryp. Hy word deur historici as die grootste veldheer cum staatsman van alle tye beskou, waarskynlik vanweë sy buitengewoon hoë morele standaarde, sy menslikheid, durf, insig, sy intellek en politieke vernuf. AG het geleef van 356 tot 325 voor Christus. Net soos Christus het hy op die jong ouderdom van 33 jaar gesterf, pas nadat hy die Griekse ryk uitgebrei het om die hele Persië en selfs Indië in te sluit.

In Daniël 8 word sy heerskappy voorspel, 250 jaar voordat AG gebore was!

Maar, vreemd genoeg, verswyg die Nuwe Testament AG se teenwoordigheid kwalik 300 jaar vantevore.

Ek nooi julle bloggers om AG se persoonlikheid na te vors, sy verhouding met vrouens, sy gevoel teenoor ander rasse, was hy spandabelrig, het hy baie gedrink, sy verhouding teenoor diegene wat hy oorwin het, ens. Dit sal julle ontsettend baie plesier verskaf om AG as mens te leer ken. Dalk kan iemand iets oor hom in die Nuwe Testament opspoor.

johnny

16 comments:

Liza-Nel said...

Hallo Johnny,

Alhoewel die Bybel hom nie by name noem nie word daar tog in Daniël 2:36-40 indirek na hom verwys in die droom van koning Nebukadneser wat Daniël moes uitlê en ook in hoofstuk 8 - die visioen van Daniël -
"In this vision Daniel was by a river when he saw a ram with two horns, one horn being higher than the other. God's angelic messenger told Daniel the ram represented the Persian kingdom, composed of Persia and Media. The different lengths of the horns showed that Persia would overshadow Media. This ram advanced in three directions and no other power could withstand its advance.

It became a great power until a new power arose in the form of a male goat from the west (verse 5)—from the direction of Greece. This goat had a "notable horn" between the eyes. Notice the interpretation in verse 21: "And the male goat is the kingdom of Greece. The large horn that is between its eyes is the first king." (dus Alexander)

En dan in hoofstuk 11 word daar weer na Alexander se koningryk verwys -
" Verses 3-4 refer to a "mighty king" who would arise after Persia's period of dominance and accomplish his own will before his kingdom would then split into four parts."

Ten spyte van genoegsame bewyse ontken sommige moderne Bybelwetenskaplikes ten sterkste die tydvak waarin die boek Daniël geskrywe is nl. die sesde eeu VC, dus 'n hele paar eeue voordat Alexander aan bewind gekom het.

Die rede vir so 'n ontkenning is vir my voor die handliggend - hulle sal andersins moet erken dat God die Skepper van die heelal is en sodoende die geskiedenis beheer en openbaar maak in vooruitskouing.

Liza-Nel said...

Nou vir so 'n brokkie skindernuus:

"Lately there has been as much discussion of the sexuality of Alexander as there was during the time of his rule over whether he was a man or a God. While the people of Macedonia don't want to believe that their national hero was gay, they can take heart in knowing that by contemporary standards most ancient Greeks were gay. Sexual attraction between men was considered normal in Classical Greece as well as in Alexander's time. Men of culture and education like Alexander loved beauty, and beauty is beauty whether it is in the form of a woman or a man. Regardless, when Oliver Stone brought the ancient king back to life in his movie Alexander, a group of 25 Greek lawyers threatened to sue him and Warner Brothers for what they claimed was an inaccurate portrayal of history. They were offended by the effeminate nature of Stone's Alexander, as were the critics. They needn't have bothered. The film was a 150 million dollar disaster though from reading reviews and discussing the film I have come to the conclusion that people who know history liked it. People who know movies didn't. The point is that 2000 years later Alexander the Great is still a controversial figure, whether he was man or God, gay or just effeminate. So Alexander still lives. But if he is still 'The Great' why does he need 25 Greek lawyers to defend him?"

Michael said...

Ek geniet gedagtes oor AG baie en moet erken dat Daniel se profesie en die Droom van N is ongelooflik in die sin dat dit so sterk na 'n historiese figuur verwys.

My eintlike opmerking is oor AG se seksuele oortuiging. Ek wonder maar net hoe jy 'n akkurate analise maak van enige historiese figuur wat die grootste deel van sy lewe tussen die beste krygers van sy tyd deur gebring het. Ek sien 'n oorweldigende "geraas" wat 'n akkurate analise feitlik onmoontlik maak. Dan praat ons nie eens van die AG mietes vs die feite.

Met hierdie aspekte in ag geneem sal ek die akademici wil maan om nie te populer met hulle analises te word nie. Vir my breek dit vertroue in hulle historiese integriteit af.

Mag die studie van AG ons lewens verryk.

Groete,
Michael
P.S. Sal dieselfde mense nie dalk vir koning Dawid ook in die gay kamp wil he nie? Ek weet dat selfs Jesus self deur sekeres in hierdie lig bespreek is.

Mart said...

"For centuries, Alexander the Great has held an eminent place in history. Arguably one of the greatest men the world has ever known, the Macedonian King accomplished many great feats in his short, but glorious life. During his reign, Alexander played several roles in the process of conquering the Persian empire, and in the assessment of his character, aspects of Alexander's capabilities of both strengths and weaknesses must be explored in him as a person, a statesman and a leader.

Alexander was a complex, inscrutable man of passion and iron-will . The King possessed a keen intellect, with an ability to make quick decisions. He had supreme courage and excellent leadership skills , which contributed significantly to his greatness as a conqueror. As a man, he had a passionate and impetuous nature, and caring not for the pleasures of luxury, Alexander instead pursued a ceaseless desire for glory and power that undeniably insatiably drove him forwards on his campaign..."
http://www.termpaperslab.com/term-papers/114086.html

Mart said...

"Alexander the Great

Greatness is not a virtue that is possessed by everyone. It is only granted to a limited number of individuals who have proven to the world that they have done something to change humanity. A great person has a goal in life and spends his/her life working toward that goal and creates long term effects on the way people live their lives. Being a good leader and inspiring people to follow in your philosophy and your dreams also achieves greatness. One example of a person who has achieved such greatness is Alexander the Great.

Alexander the Great would be considered great because he was an extraordinary leader, he created the biggest empire and he allowed the Greek culture spread to other nations.

His journey towards anti-racism united people of all kinds to work together and find peace within the races. So the Greek traditions and customs began being carried out by people as far as Asia and India and probably around the world. united people under a philosophy, Alexander the Great united people under an empire, which proves to be greatness.

He was an extraordinary leader; he created the biggest empire and allowed the Greek culture to spread to other nations. In turn, through all of this Alexander the Great proved to be a great leader. He conquered land from the Balkan Mountains to the Indus River, and if he hadn’t died, probably the whole world.


Therefore, Alexander the Great would be consider on the great individuals of this world. An example of this would be the phalanx, which proved to be the reason the small Macedonian army could always exceed such bigger armies. Also, he was generous and honourable to his enemies and only vicious to people who crossed his path.


Finally, Alexander the Great would be considered great because he largely contributed to the diffusion of the Greek culture to other nations. He was a truly wondrous individual and will be remembered forever as the great Alexander the Great. In terms of being a war leader, he had such innovative military tactics, which helped him achieve greatness. Any man that is able to single-handedly take hold of so much land and unify such a vast land mass deserves the title as great because that is far beyond the capabilities of any ordinary individual."

http://www.megaessays.com/viewpaper/86739.html

Mart said...

Ek is gefassineer deur Alexander die Grote!

"Alexander lived about 2,400 years ago. He was born in 356 before Christ in Macedonia. His record still stands. No one has equaled the imperial accomplishments of Alexander the Great.

The ramifications of Alexander’s conquest are evident today in the blue eyes and blonde hair of the descendents of the soldiers who Alexander left behind in the far off lands he conquered. As a bid for pacification, Alexander intentionally left behind thousands of his soldiers to integrate with the peoples of those lands. Their descendents still bear the genetic markers of their Macedonian heritage.

It was helpful that Alexander’s father was king and his mother was queen of Macedonia. In fact, it was especially beneficial to Alexander that his father was a very able king and his mother was a very powerful queen and doting mother to Alexander. He also had the good fortune to have good teachers. Early in life, he was taught by his uncle who emphasized the traits of discipline and self-control. Later, Alexander was praised for these traits by his army and people. In his teens, Alexander was a student of the legendary Greek philosopher Aristotle, who subsequently advised Alexander during his early military campaigns.

Alexander was fascinated by war stories and military tactics. Homer’s texts enchanted young Alexander. He was riveted by the stories of the Iliad and the Odyssey. He dreamed of being an epic hero. He yearned to be a great warrior like Achilles or a great strategist like Odysseus. Alexander carried the dream of heroic exploits with him on his military campaigns. It is said that while campaigning Alexander slept with a copy of the Iliad under his pillow (along with a dagger). Alexander emulated his heroes by becoming a skilled military tactician, a gifted horseman, and a brutal warlord. His struggles against his great nemesis, Darius III of Persia, were epic in proportion.

For a king, Alexander lived a simple and carefully regimented lifestyle. He was young and had the means to live like a modern-day rock star. But, he rejected a life of self-indulgence, and his army and people honored and respected him for it. Alexander promoted a public image of himself as a disciplined general, and he lived up to it. He studied war and history, married two women, and found solace and support in friendships. He reserved his excesses for politics and war. He overwhelmed his political and military challengers, often ruthlessly, and he conquered the known world before he died young. The story of Alexander’s life is a relentless series of deadly intrigues and life-and-death struggles that reshaped the geopolitical landscape of his world."

http://ablemedia.com/ctcweb/consortium/alexander1.html

Michael said...

Hallo Johnny,

Het jy enige idee hoe ons vir AG in die nuwe testament moet begin soek? As ek kyk fokus dit darm sterk op profesië oor Jesus. As ek na die Openbaring aan Johannes kyk is dit ook nie duidelik eers waar en hoekom AG dalk genoem sou moes word nie.

Dit sal 'n lekker soektog wees, want ek dink ons kan dalk 'n paar oulike hipotese aanmekaar flans.

Groete,
Michael
P.S. Dit sal ook lekker wees om AG teenoor Jesus te vergelyk.

Liza-Nel said...

"As ek kyk fokus dit darm sterk op profesië oor Jesus."

Michael jy het 'n punt hier beet.

"To this very same world that Alexander molded, the early Church took the words of the true gospel about Jesus Christ and the Kingdom of God. Theirs was the true story of a God who had become man—the reverse of Alexander's ambition. Yet, where a man who claimed to be a god failed, the One who was God and became man succeeded."
-Darris McNeely/The Good News

Michael said...

Hallo Liza,

Ek het maar min gelees oor AG en ek dink ek het die fliek Alexander ook gesien. Wat ek wel wil doen is om Alexander die Grote te vergelyk met Karel die Grote, waaroor ons verlede maand so 'n een en 'n ander te sê gehad het.

Karel die Grote was ook 'n heerser, al was sy ryk nie so uitgebrei nie, het hy ook besondere dinge vermag in 'n westerse wêreld wat nog maar pas gebore...hulpeloos...goddeloos gelê het in die as van die vergane Romeinse Ryk.

Ek kan nie met sekerheid oor Karel die Grote se verhouding met God praat nie, maar hy was 'n leier wat ook maar niks was as God... Christus se lig nie op hom geskyn het nie.

My vraag is daarom maar net; Tot hoe 'n mate het die lig van Christus, wat voor AG al was, ook vir AG gemaak wat hy was? Vir ons om van te leer. Dit is hoe ek na my gunsteling filosowe ook kyk. Plato en Socrates was verseker ook deur God verlig, en al is Aristoteles nie my gunsteling sal ek erken dat God ook sy gang bepaal het... terwyl hy Alexander ook opgelei het.

Groete,
Michael

Mart said...

Dis vir my ongelooflik wat Alexander reggekry het in sy baie kort lewe. (Hy is op 32 oorlede aan koors).

Interessant dat hy twee keer getroud was.

Wat 'n staatsman en leier was hy nie!

Henrietta said...

Sjoe, te oordeel aan die reaksie, is hierdie ons "lekkerste" onderwerp nóg - Dankie Johnny!

Soos ek my kan herinner, is dit nie soseer dat Alexander by name in die NT genoem word nie, maar wel sy invloed wat letterlik eeue na sy dood voortgeduur het, Bv die Hellenistiese invloed (soos Mart se insetsels toon).
Voorbeelde van sy invloed is die Hellenisme: die Griekse taal en kultuur (die Nuwe Testament is in Grieks geskryf). Paulus is besonder lief vir sport-metafore – die Grieke was mal oor alle sportsoorte en elke groot dorp het ‘n gimnasium gehad . Mens moet ook in jou agterkop onthou dat 'n taal 'n baie sterk "kultuurdraer" is, so net die blote gebruik van Grieks in plaas van Hebreeus in die NT, dra die Griekse kultuur daarin.


Ek het op hierdie voorbeeld afgekom: "One cannot correctly interpret what it means to call Jesus "Lord" without knowing how the word was used in the Hellenistic world of the first century".

Mens kan dit tot 'n mate vergelyk met hoe dit op die oomblik in SA gaan, met Engels wat so prominent is (daar is Afrikaanse ouers wat met opset hul kinders in Engelse skole sit). So word daar in Hand 6:1 en 9:29 na "Griekssprekende Jode" verwys.

Vir my is dit wonderlik om God se Hand hierin te sien: die Evangelie kon in ‘n taal geskryf word wat baie wyer gepraat was as Hebreeus. Sover ek weet, is Grieks ook ‘n besonder “ryk” taal.

Sal HEERLIK wees om regtig diep hierop in te gaan - (dankie Johnny!) maar op die oomblik moet ek sê: Wyk satan - belangriker dinge wag!

Henrietta said...

Is die stad Alex(ks)andrië waarna verwys word in Hand 18:24, 27:6, nie na Alexander vernoem nie?

Henrietta said...

My “Zondervan Compact Bible Dictionary” sê onder andere die volgende oor Aleksandrië:

“The population of Alexandria had three prominent elements: Jews, Greeks and Egyptians.... the influence of Alexandrian philosophy on the thought of the writers of the NT is debatable, but its influence on later Biblical studies in the Christian church was great. According to tradition, Mark the evangelist first carried the Gospel to Alexandria and established the first church there. From this city, Christianity reached out into surrounding countries. A theological school flourished here …. Among its great teachers were Clement and Origen, pioneers in Biblical scholarship and Christian philosophy… “

Liza-Nel said...

Michael,

"Tot hoe 'n mate het die lig van Christus, wat voor AG al was, ook vir AG gemaak wat hy was? Vir ons om van te leer."

Hierdie is 'n vraag waaroor jy beslis 'n draad moet begin. Dit sal interessant wees om 'n bietjie te gesels oor die impak wat groot staatsmanne of ander beroemde figure op die koers van die wêreld-gekiedenis gehad het.

Liza

Liza-Nel said...

http://www.news24.com/Rapport/Perspektief/0,,752-810_2292038,00.html

Klik gerus op hierdie skakel vir 'n baie interessante reisbeskrywing deur Charl-Pierre Naudé oor sy besoek aan die stad Aleksandrië. Die uittreksel kom uit sy boek - "Die pêrellig van haar lampe".

Michael said...

Ons moet net onthou dat die hele gnostiese beweging ook in Aleks begin het.